considerations re claimed apparitions of the blessed virgin mary at medjugorje
(Preface: I am James Healy. I am a sinful man and a scoundrel. I may not be an entirely objective judge of anything to do with religion in general or the Catholic faith in particular. I do admit that truth is the highest thing in the universe. I believe that I believe this because Jesus is the truth and will admit no lie in his kingdom and has in some measure allowed me to believe in him. I believe that in his mercy Jesus has permitted me to know his name and to experience some intellectual smidgen of the reality about who he is. My profoundest hope is that Jesus is real and that he commissioned the Catholic Church to serve himself in human history. Now you the reader must decide if someone with my bon fides can offer any valid insight into claims of mystical apparitions at Medjugorje or anywhere else.)
***
1. The now deceased Bishop of Mostar, Pavao Zanic, was among the most forthright speakers against claims by six individuals that they were receiving apparitions of the Virgin Mary and messages from her at Medjugorje. The claims began in June 1981 and have continued to the present day. If the visonaries' claims are true, thousands of apparitions of the Blessed Mother have taken place and are still taking place at Medjugorje. Two other individuals were alleged to have seen the apparition, apparently on the first and second day respectively, but never saw it subsequently.
2. Speaking and writing in the 1980's, Bishop Pavao Zanic asserted forcefully that the claimed apparitions were not genuine.
3. Bishop Pavao Zanic stated openly and formally that he believed the apparitions at Medjugorje had been faked.
4. Bishop Pavao Zanic stated that those responsible for faking the apparitions and for formulating the messages which the visionaries claimed to be receiving from the Blessed Virgin Mary, were Father Tomas Vlasic (now no longer a priest) and Father Jozo Zovko. Bishop Zanic explicitly referred to Father Tomas Vlasic as a "charismatic wizard."
5. Bishop Pavao Zanic claimed to suspect that a broader conspiracy was at play in staging the apparitions, a conspiracy he suggested might involve internationally known members of a popular movement within both Protestant and Catholic Christianity which occasionally styles itself, and is known as, the Charismatic movement.
6. Bishop Pavao Zanic has been subjected to intense criticism from advocates of the genuineness of the apparitions at Medjugorje. The criticism has continued after his death.
7. I do not believe Bishop Pavao Zanic was a dishonorable man.
8. I do not believe Bishop Pavao Zanic was a Soviet era infiltrator of the Catholic Church.
9. I do not believe that the conduct and conclusions of Bishop Pavao Zanic are explained by assertions that he was a snob or that he had a particular distaste for "peasants" claiming to have visions.
10. I believe Bishop Pavao Zanic acted with some integrity in seeking the truth about the claims of apparitions at Medjugorje.
11. I believe that at every step of the way, advocates asserting the visions were genuine, subjected Bishop Pavao Zanic to all manner of pressures, moral, spiritual, religious, patriotic and intellectual, to declare the visions genuine.
12. I believe that Bishop Pavao Zanic showed courage in refusing to bow to these pressures.
13. I believe that Bishop Pavao Zanic's legitimate concerns about inconsistencies in the claims of the supposed visionaries have not been adequately addressed by advocates of the genuineness of the claimed visions at Medjugorje or by anyone else.
14. I personally find it disconcerting that the then priest Tomas Vlasic did indeed attend an international Charismatic conference a few weeks before the supposed visions began at Medjugorje in 1981. At the conference he is alleged to have received a prophecy from a well known and much respected supposed healer called Sister Breege McKenna, to wit, that she could see him sitting on a chair and that water was pouring from beneath the chair. A priest at the same conference Father Emil Tardif is said to have prophesied that the blessed Virgin Mary would shortly be present in Medjugorje. Father Tardif's reported words were: "I am sending my mother to you." The tradition among Charismatics would be that Father Tardif was passing on a message from Jesus, and not speaking for himself. Bishop Pavao Zanic in my view wrongly interpreted Father Tardif's use of these words, as representing a decision by Father Tardif to send the Blessed Mother to Medugorje. In any case the apparitions at Medjugorje supposedly started within weeks of this Charismatic Conference which was indeed attended by the then Father Tomas Vlasic. Sister Breege McKenna was more recently in the news endorsing the claims of an American woman living in Ireland who calls herself The Lay Apostle Ann, and who maintains she has received messages from God, the Virgin Mary, and a host of saints. Ann also claims to have visited heaven, hell and purgatory. The full identity of Ann has not been revealed. Her claims seem dubious to me. Sister Breege McKenna late last year, disassociated herself from Ann. Father Rene Laurentin who in association with Professor Henri Joyeux wrote the landmark 1985 book Etudes Scientifiques Et Medicales which is positively disposed to Medjugorje from a purportedly scientific point of view, was also positively disposed towards visionaries of dubious reputation in other countries, most famously towards Christina Gallagher in Ireland. All this may have implications for the credibility, discernment and judgement of Sister Breege McKenna, Father Laurentin and of other advocates of the genuineness of the claims of visions at Medjugorje.
15. Tomas Vlasic is no longer a priest. It is unclear whether his departure from the priesthood came at his own request or through a decision by the Pope or some other senior prelate. There have been conflicting claims and reports.
16. There have been substantial rumours about Tomas Vlasic's behaviour over the years, including the suggestion that he fathered a child with a nun. These rumours would not deter me from believing that God could use him as a servant of truth. Negative rumours have also been disseminated about Father Jozo. I do not accept that these rumours, even if true, would necessarily discredit either man or their claims.
17. Since the laicisation of Tomas Vlasic and for a period of years before it, as negative rumours became increasingly prevalent about him, advocates of the genuineness of the apparitions at Medjurgorje, have been claiming Tomas Vlasic was never a significant figure at Medjugorje.
18. My finding is that within days of the first claimed apparition at Medjurgorje, Tomas Vlasic was present in the town as a priest and from that point onwards had ongoing close associations with the supposed visionaries.
19. The assertion that Tomas Vlasic was serving as priest far away from Medjugorje when the visions began is unconvincing. He was serving twenty miles away. It's not that far.
20. Tomas Vlasic is depicted in various 1980's writings about Medugorje by advocates of the genuineness of the apparitions, as an "heroic and saintly" figure.
21. Tomas Vlasic is depicted in various 1980's writings about Medjugorje by advocates of the genuineness of the apparations, as a significant figure associated with the visionaries.
22. At one stage Tomas Vlasic had a particularly close interaction with the visionary Marija Pavlovic.
23. As Tomas Vlasic's reputation came under attack, Marija Pavlovic released a statement disacciating herself from him and from a religious community he had founded in Italy. Prior to her statement, which reads like a legally framed document, Marija Pavlovic had a close association with Tomas Vlasic and his religious community.
24. Father Jozo Zovko was Parish Priest of Medjugorje in 1981 when the visions are supposed to have commenced. Advocates of the genuineness of the apparitions at Medjugorje claim that Father Jozo was initially opposed to the visionaries. This assertion is not particularly impressive. If Father Jozo was capable of conspiring to fake apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we might expect him to be clever enough to dissociate himself from the visions initially, and then to stage a change of heart.
25. Writings during the 1980's from advocates of the genuineness of the Medjugorje apparitions, include a claim by one priest that Father Jozo himself was receiving daily apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary. This claim seems to have been let go cold. I have heard no reference to it in over a decade.
26. Father Jozo appears to have suffered imprisonment and persecution from the communist authorities in what was then Yugoslavia during the first years of the supposed apparitions in the 1980's. I would suggest that not everyone who is persecuted by communists is on the side of the angels.
27. Scientific studies were conducted on the visionaries in 1984 and 1985 by Professor Henri Joyeux in tandem with Father Rene Laurentin, a French expert on Marian apparitions. I find the account of the results of these studies authored jointly by Professor Joyeux and Father Laurentin dissatisfying.
28. The tests were conducted over short periods. Real tests should have been conducted continuously over weeks and months.
29. Father Laurentin writes of the patience of Marija in allowing herself to be inconvenienced for a short period before, during and after one of her visions, by having the electro encephalogram equipment attached to her head. It didn't sound like too much of an inconvenience. Father Laurentin notes that the attachment of apparatus to her head must have been hard for Marija since she had recently qualified with a diploma in hairdressing. The apologetic tone of Father Laurentin in this matter does not inspire confidence in his skills as an investigator, nor does his apparent deference to the visionaries.
30. The only time a simultaneous electro encephelogram was taken from two visionaries at once during an apparition, the reading for Marija was deemed unusable and so could not be compared with that taken from Ivan. Professor Joyeux and Father Laurentin in their book claim that one of their apparatuses for taking electro encephelograms had been damaged in transit to Medjugorje. They further claimed that the readings from Marija were an "usuable smudge." I am disconerted by these claims.
31. On one occasion three of the visionaries were unable to attend the scientific tests organised by Professor Joyeux due to illness or other reasons. Since so few tests had been scheduled, this non attendence meant comparative readings were never taken of the five visionaries together during an apparition. It seems Professor Joyeux and Father Laurentin were only in a position to take a maximum of two electro encephelograms at once. And according to their own book they never managed to do this, as one of their apparatuses was damaged. The sixth visionary Mirjana was not included in any tests as she was nowhere to be seen during the various investigatory periods. She may indeed have been elsewhere on legitimate business. But such an excuse is useless for a scientific investigation of SIX people who are claiming to receive messages from the Blessed Virgin Mary.
32. On one occasion referred to by Professor Joyeux and Father Laurentin, the visionary Vicka was to be monitored with an electrode on her larynx during an apparition. At this vision she was supposed to receive a message from the Blessed Virgin Mary. The vision ended after twenty seconds. The message was not received. Vicka claimed the Virgin Mary arrived and left immediately.
33. Professor Joyeux and Father Laurentin suggest that the visionaries eyes did not react to a piece of card placed in front of their eyes during a vision. They suggest that this lack of responsiveness in the eyes meant the visionaries were completely unaware of the card. Their conclusion is in my view not scientific.
34. I believe that the scientific tests conducted by Professor Joyeux in association with Father Rene Laurentin are not scientifically demonstrable of anything. The tests were not conducted in an atmosphere of objectivity, never mind scepticism. There were no attempts made to take simultaneous readings from the visionaries during EXTENDED visions. One visionary attended no tests. Two visionaries failed to show up due to illness at another. The visionary Jacov, then aged 13 and referred to by Father Laurentin as "little Jacov," simply refused to undergo any tests. Advocates of the genuineness of the visions at Medjugorje should now drop these tests from their precis of evidence.
35. During the past thirty one years of continuous apparitions at Medjugorje, it seems that at no time has there been precise clarification about the manner in which the many messages were given by the Blessed Virgin Mary to the visionaries. It also seems that at no time did the visionaries immediately following a vision write down, under objective supervision, and without consulting each other, what had supposedly transpired and what the apparition had supposedly said. The messages were published afterwards. There is no clear provenance for them. It seems that the simplest of tests, the comparison of separate accounts by different visionaries of the same visions, taken over a long period of time, has not been made.
36. Advocates of the genuineness of the apparitions at Medjugorje often point to a Christian formula, namely: "That by their fruits you shall know them." These advocates claim that the fruits of Medjugorje have been universally good and that something produced either falsely through human chicanery, or maliciously through satanic influence, could not produce such positive results. I would note that even in the earthly hell of the concentration camps, God was active. There are people who claim to have received the most profound and beautiful experience of God while enduring the satanic tortures of the Nazis. Similar claims exist from those tortured by atheistic communists. The positive fruits of Medjugorje are a point in its favour. They may even amount to millions of points in its favour. But they are not conclusive. Those of us who have some religious pretensions, might reasonably postulate that wherever people turn to God, he answers them.
37. The accounts of those claiming to have experienced miraculous healings at Medjugorje, along with the much more numerous accounts of those claiming to have seen the sun spinning, must be looked at individually and assessed individually.
38. The most significant factors militating in favour of the genuineness of the apparitions, for any investigator studying the phenomena at Medjugorje, remain the multiple positive claims by those visiting the area, of supernatural healings, miracles, cures from drug addiction, and deliverance from mental oppressions.
39. I think there are two main possibilities to explain the Medjugorje phenomenon. The visionaries are either lying or telling the truth. A third possibility, ie the possibility that the visionaries were being manipulated without knowing of the manipulation, by Tomas Vlasic, Father Jozo or others, through hypnosis, allied to the administration of hallucinogenic drugs, or some other process of manipulation, I now bracket with the possibility that they are lying. It is the general possibility that a lie is being told, and whoever originated that lie, the visionaries would have at this stage knowingly played a part in its propagation. That is to say, I no longer believe they could have been hypnotised continuously for the past thirty years. At some stage they themselves would have suspected something was going on. I suggest the third possibility (that Tomas Vlasic and/or Father Jozo hypnotised and/or drugged them) would still involve a willingness by the visionaries to lie. Even if they were being manipulated, I am suggesting that after thirty years, they would have become aware of some aspect of the manipulation. For instance if Tomas Vlasic was at one stage continuously composing messages supposedly given to Marija by the Virgin Mary, I am suggesting Marija would at some stage of the process have realised that these messages did not come from the Virgin Mary. I seriously doubt it is possible to keep someone hypnotised for thirty years although it is conceivable they could have been kept cowed with drugs or through black magic. We might consult with David Blaine or Derren Brown on this matter. For me it now boils down to an either or situation. The visionaries are either lying or telling the truth.
***
1. The now deceased Bishop of Mostar, Pavao Zanic, was among the most forthright speakers against claims by six individuals that they were receiving apparitions of the Virgin Mary and messages from her at Medjugorje. The claims began in June 1981 and have continued to the present day. If the visonaries' claims are true, thousands of apparitions of the Blessed Mother have taken place and are still taking place at Medjugorje. Two other individuals were alleged to have seen the apparition, apparently on the first and second day respectively, but never saw it subsequently.
2. Speaking and writing in the 1980's, Bishop Pavao Zanic asserted forcefully that the claimed apparitions were not genuine.
3. Bishop Pavao Zanic stated openly and formally that he believed the apparitions at Medjugorje had been faked.
4. Bishop Pavao Zanic stated that those responsible for faking the apparitions and for formulating the messages which the visionaries claimed to be receiving from the Blessed Virgin Mary, were Father Tomas Vlasic (now no longer a priest) and Father Jozo Zovko. Bishop Zanic explicitly referred to Father Tomas Vlasic as a "charismatic wizard."
5. Bishop Pavao Zanic claimed to suspect that a broader conspiracy was at play in staging the apparitions, a conspiracy he suggested might involve internationally known members of a popular movement within both Protestant and Catholic Christianity which occasionally styles itself, and is known as, the Charismatic movement.
6. Bishop Pavao Zanic has been subjected to intense criticism from advocates of the genuineness of the apparitions at Medjugorje. The criticism has continued after his death.
7. I do not believe Bishop Pavao Zanic was a dishonorable man.
8. I do not believe Bishop Pavao Zanic was a Soviet era infiltrator of the Catholic Church.
9. I do not believe that the conduct and conclusions of Bishop Pavao Zanic are explained by assertions that he was a snob or that he had a particular distaste for "peasants" claiming to have visions.
10. I believe Bishop Pavao Zanic acted with some integrity in seeking the truth about the claims of apparitions at Medjugorje.
11. I believe that at every step of the way, advocates asserting the visions were genuine, subjected Bishop Pavao Zanic to all manner of pressures, moral, spiritual, religious, patriotic and intellectual, to declare the visions genuine.
12. I believe that Bishop Pavao Zanic showed courage in refusing to bow to these pressures.
13. I believe that Bishop Pavao Zanic's legitimate concerns about inconsistencies in the claims of the supposed visionaries have not been adequately addressed by advocates of the genuineness of the claimed visions at Medjugorje or by anyone else.
14. I personally find it disconcerting that the then priest Tomas Vlasic did indeed attend an international Charismatic conference a few weeks before the supposed visions began at Medjugorje in 1981. At the conference he is alleged to have received a prophecy from a well known and much respected supposed healer called Sister Breege McKenna, to wit, that she could see him sitting on a chair and that water was pouring from beneath the chair. A priest at the same conference Father Emil Tardif is said to have prophesied that the blessed Virgin Mary would shortly be present in Medjugorje. Father Tardif's reported words were: "I am sending my mother to you." The tradition among Charismatics would be that Father Tardif was passing on a message from Jesus, and not speaking for himself. Bishop Pavao Zanic in my view wrongly interpreted Father Tardif's use of these words, as representing a decision by Father Tardif to send the Blessed Mother to Medugorje. In any case the apparitions at Medjugorje supposedly started within weeks of this Charismatic Conference which was indeed attended by the then Father Tomas Vlasic. Sister Breege McKenna was more recently in the news endorsing the claims of an American woman living in Ireland who calls herself The Lay Apostle Ann, and who maintains she has received messages from God, the Virgin Mary, and a host of saints. Ann also claims to have visited heaven, hell and purgatory. The full identity of Ann has not been revealed. Her claims seem dubious to me. Sister Breege McKenna late last year, disassociated herself from Ann. Father Rene Laurentin who in association with Professor Henri Joyeux wrote the landmark 1985 book Etudes Scientifiques Et Medicales which is positively disposed to Medjugorje from a purportedly scientific point of view, was also positively disposed towards visionaries of dubious reputation in other countries, most famously towards Christina Gallagher in Ireland. All this may have implications for the credibility, discernment and judgement of Sister Breege McKenna, Father Laurentin and of other advocates of the genuineness of the claims of visions at Medjugorje.
15. Tomas Vlasic is no longer a priest. It is unclear whether his departure from the priesthood came at his own request or through a decision by the Pope or some other senior prelate. There have been conflicting claims and reports.
16. There have been substantial rumours about Tomas Vlasic's behaviour over the years, including the suggestion that he fathered a child with a nun. These rumours would not deter me from believing that God could use him as a servant of truth. Negative rumours have also been disseminated about Father Jozo. I do not accept that these rumours, even if true, would necessarily discredit either man or their claims.
17. Since the laicisation of Tomas Vlasic and for a period of years before it, as negative rumours became increasingly prevalent about him, advocates of the genuineness of the apparitions at Medjurgorje, have been claiming Tomas Vlasic was never a significant figure at Medjugorje.
18. My finding is that within days of the first claimed apparition at Medjurgorje, Tomas Vlasic was present in the town as a priest and from that point onwards had ongoing close associations with the supposed visionaries.
19. The assertion that Tomas Vlasic was serving as priest far away from Medjugorje when the visions began is unconvincing. He was serving twenty miles away. It's not that far.
20. Tomas Vlasic is depicted in various 1980's writings about Medugorje by advocates of the genuineness of the apparitions, as an "heroic and saintly" figure.
21. Tomas Vlasic is depicted in various 1980's writings about Medjugorje by advocates of the genuineness of the apparations, as a significant figure associated with the visionaries.
22. At one stage Tomas Vlasic had a particularly close interaction with the visionary Marija Pavlovic.
23. As Tomas Vlasic's reputation came under attack, Marija Pavlovic released a statement disacciating herself from him and from a religious community he had founded in Italy. Prior to her statement, which reads like a legally framed document, Marija Pavlovic had a close association with Tomas Vlasic and his religious community.
24. Father Jozo Zovko was Parish Priest of Medjugorje in 1981 when the visions are supposed to have commenced. Advocates of the genuineness of the apparitions at Medjugorje claim that Father Jozo was initially opposed to the visionaries. This assertion is not particularly impressive. If Father Jozo was capable of conspiring to fake apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we might expect him to be clever enough to dissociate himself from the visions initially, and then to stage a change of heart.
25. Writings during the 1980's from advocates of the genuineness of the Medjugorje apparitions, include a claim by one priest that Father Jozo himself was receiving daily apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary. This claim seems to have been let go cold. I have heard no reference to it in over a decade.
26. Father Jozo appears to have suffered imprisonment and persecution from the communist authorities in what was then Yugoslavia during the first years of the supposed apparitions in the 1980's. I would suggest that not everyone who is persecuted by communists is on the side of the angels.
27. Scientific studies were conducted on the visionaries in 1984 and 1985 by Professor Henri Joyeux in tandem with Father Rene Laurentin, a French expert on Marian apparitions. I find the account of the results of these studies authored jointly by Professor Joyeux and Father Laurentin dissatisfying.
28. The tests were conducted over short periods. Real tests should have been conducted continuously over weeks and months.
29. Father Laurentin writes of the patience of Marija in allowing herself to be inconvenienced for a short period before, during and after one of her visions, by having the electro encephalogram equipment attached to her head. It didn't sound like too much of an inconvenience. Father Laurentin notes that the attachment of apparatus to her head must have been hard for Marija since she had recently qualified with a diploma in hairdressing. The apologetic tone of Father Laurentin in this matter does not inspire confidence in his skills as an investigator, nor does his apparent deference to the visionaries.
30. The only time a simultaneous electro encephelogram was taken from two visionaries at once during an apparition, the reading for Marija was deemed unusable and so could not be compared with that taken from Ivan. Professor Joyeux and Father Laurentin in their book claim that one of their apparatuses for taking electro encephelograms had been damaged in transit to Medjugorje. They further claimed that the readings from Marija were an "usuable smudge." I am disconerted by these claims.
31. On one occasion three of the visionaries were unable to attend the scientific tests organised by Professor Joyeux due to illness or other reasons. Since so few tests had been scheduled, this non attendence meant comparative readings were never taken of the five visionaries together during an apparition. It seems Professor Joyeux and Father Laurentin were only in a position to take a maximum of two electro encephelograms at once. And according to their own book they never managed to do this, as one of their apparatuses was damaged. The sixth visionary Mirjana was not included in any tests as she was nowhere to be seen during the various investigatory periods. She may indeed have been elsewhere on legitimate business. But such an excuse is useless for a scientific investigation of SIX people who are claiming to receive messages from the Blessed Virgin Mary.
32. On one occasion referred to by Professor Joyeux and Father Laurentin, the visionary Vicka was to be monitored with an electrode on her larynx during an apparition. At this vision she was supposed to receive a message from the Blessed Virgin Mary. The vision ended after twenty seconds. The message was not received. Vicka claimed the Virgin Mary arrived and left immediately.
33. Professor Joyeux and Father Laurentin suggest that the visionaries eyes did not react to a piece of card placed in front of their eyes during a vision. They suggest that this lack of responsiveness in the eyes meant the visionaries were completely unaware of the card. Their conclusion is in my view not scientific.
34. I believe that the scientific tests conducted by Professor Joyeux in association with Father Rene Laurentin are not scientifically demonstrable of anything. The tests were not conducted in an atmosphere of objectivity, never mind scepticism. There were no attempts made to take simultaneous readings from the visionaries during EXTENDED visions. One visionary attended no tests. Two visionaries failed to show up due to illness at another. The visionary Jacov, then aged 13 and referred to by Father Laurentin as "little Jacov," simply refused to undergo any tests. Advocates of the genuineness of the visions at Medjugorje should now drop these tests from their precis of evidence.
35. During the past thirty one years of continuous apparitions at Medjugorje, it seems that at no time has there been precise clarification about the manner in which the many messages were given by the Blessed Virgin Mary to the visionaries. It also seems that at no time did the visionaries immediately following a vision write down, under objective supervision, and without consulting each other, what had supposedly transpired and what the apparition had supposedly said. The messages were published afterwards. There is no clear provenance for them. It seems that the simplest of tests, the comparison of separate accounts by different visionaries of the same visions, taken over a long period of time, has not been made.
36. Advocates of the genuineness of the apparitions at Medjugorje often point to a Christian formula, namely: "That by their fruits you shall know them." These advocates claim that the fruits of Medjugorje have been universally good and that something produced either falsely through human chicanery, or maliciously through satanic influence, could not produce such positive results. I would note that even in the earthly hell of the concentration camps, God was active. There are people who claim to have received the most profound and beautiful experience of God while enduring the satanic tortures of the Nazis. Similar claims exist from those tortured by atheistic communists. The positive fruits of Medjugorje are a point in its favour. They may even amount to millions of points in its favour. But they are not conclusive. Those of us who have some religious pretensions, might reasonably postulate that wherever people turn to God, he answers them.
37. The accounts of those claiming to have experienced miraculous healings at Medjugorje, along with the much more numerous accounts of those claiming to have seen the sun spinning, must be looked at individually and assessed individually.
38. The most significant factors militating in favour of the genuineness of the apparitions, for any investigator studying the phenomena at Medjugorje, remain the multiple positive claims by those visiting the area, of supernatural healings, miracles, cures from drug addiction, and deliverance from mental oppressions.
39. I think there are two main possibilities to explain the Medjugorje phenomenon. The visionaries are either lying or telling the truth. A third possibility, ie the possibility that the visionaries were being manipulated without knowing of the manipulation, by Tomas Vlasic, Father Jozo or others, through hypnosis, allied to the administration of hallucinogenic drugs, or some other process of manipulation, I now bracket with the possibility that they are lying. It is the general possibility that a lie is being told, and whoever originated that lie, the visionaries would have at this stage knowingly played a part in its propagation. That is to say, I no longer believe they could have been hypnotised continuously for the past thirty years. At some stage they themselves would have suspected something was going on. I suggest the third possibility (that Tomas Vlasic and/or Father Jozo hypnotised and/or drugged them) would still involve a willingness by the visionaries to lie. Even if they were being manipulated, I am suggesting that after thirty years, they would have become aware of some aspect of the manipulation. For instance if Tomas Vlasic was at one stage continuously composing messages supposedly given to Marija by the Virgin Mary, I am suggesting Marija would at some stage of the process have realised that these messages did not come from the Virgin Mary. I seriously doubt it is possible to keep someone hypnotised for thirty years although it is conceivable they could have been kept cowed with drugs or through black magic. We might consult with David Blaine or Derren Brown on this matter. For me it now boils down to an either or situation. The visionaries are either lying or telling the truth.
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